Improved New Units!

The Elvish Champion · November 30th, 2004, 8:46 pm

I have considered what the Elvish Pillager told me and I decided to follow that suggestion. These are examples of some units that I would like to be added:

Hedgehog:

HP: 40
Melee:5-2
Range:7-3
XP:0/40
Advances to: Fire Hedgehog

Bear:

HP: 48
Melee: 17-2

Range:None
XP:0/58
Advances to: Grizzly

Circon · Post by **Circon** » November 30th, 2004, 9:08 pm

Graphics? Cfg files?

I can spam out twenty units in a few minutes. This post is spam. While the idea of "wilderness animals" is interesting, the presentation method you have chosen is not.

Why not add snakes and hawks while you're at it?

Elvish_Pillager · Post by **Elvish_Pillager** » November 30th, 2004, 9:26 pm

Circon wrote:I can spam out twenty units in a few minutes.

And if he can do that, I can spam out maybe only five but they'll be fairly balanced, too. Yours don't even have a cost or a suggested usage. I suggest that if you really want to get these units, you

1) Make complete CFG files and placeholder graphics,
2) Playtest them and balance them somewhat,
3) Suggest them on the forum once they're in a state in which they'll get a serious reception. You need some serious work yourself first, though, before you get support, unless your ideas are really amazing. (they're not.)

SaintDust · Post by **SaintDust** » November 30th, 2004, 10:05 pm

i feal out of place for saying this but i think its a must.

1. Most ideas that players have tend to add new features to the game, rather than fix the ones in place. New factions and New units are almost always a good idea. It would create a deeper gaming enviroment. But the truth is, that Dave doesn't even consider most of what people have propossed. I don't know why..

2. Your ideas a great as they are.. Thanks for posting them, would have been a good way have handling this post. Instead you guys attacked it by saying you could do better, or do the same.. this type of behavior discourages players from even contributing at all.. Maybe its just me but i read an abrasive tone into your replies.

3. They are correct you could add more "completeness" to your ideas.

Post by **turin** » November 30th, 2004, 10:16 pm

the answer to what you have said is, your "statement 1." is faulty. New factions/races are VERY RARELY A GOOD IDEA. Most users find them "cool" (at least the ones they though of), but devs have made a reasoned decision that they are BAD for the game.

I'm not trying to flame or anything, but people need to realize this. and posting half-assed ideas usually just gets on people nerves...

Elvish_Pillager · November 30th, 2004, 10:19 pm

SaintDust wrote:Dave doesn't even consider most of what people have propossed. I don't know why...

I suspect it's because he has no reason to consider them, and that any result of said considering would be either
A) Rejecting the proposals, in which case there was no point considering or
B) More work for him and for other people who didn't consider it either, with not a lot of possible benefit.

Also, Dave doesn't do graphics, so he wouldn't consider implementing ideas without graphics.

Post by **turin** » November 30th, 2004, 10:37 pm

dave will look at an idea when it has progressed to the point that it is well developed and some work has already been done on it. At that point post it to the dev. disc. forum for it to come to his attention. (this is basically paraphrasing exactly what he has said easlier)

but DON"T just post a new idea there. it is for well developed ideas ONLY, not just any idea.

MadMax · Post by **MadMax** » November 30th, 2004, 10:38 pm

If someone can draw the graphics, I can use the bear, snake, and hawk in FtF.

The only reason I don't have NPCs on the Isle of Storms and Morogor is because I do not believe animals such as rabbits and cows would live that distance from Wesnoth. But those animals would be nice, especially because they can be tougher.

Kamahawk · Post by **Kamahawk** » December 1st, 2004, 1:07 am

SaintDust wrote:1. Most ideas that players have tend to add new features to the game, rather than fix the ones in place. New factions and New units are almost always a good idea. It would create a deeper gaming enviroment. But the truth is, that Dave doesn't even consider most of what people have propossed. I don't know why..

New units and factions almosty never add to the game. Lets think about this for moment:

Drakes: According to my own rules I'm not allowed to coment on these guys.

Wooses: Ok, I'd still prefer these guys as campaign units as opposed to part of the elven forces.

Elvish enchantress branch: Um... Why exactly is that there?
Mermen/Naga upgrade: Ok, need to be balanced

SaintDust wrote:2. Your ideas a great as they are.. Thanks for posting them, would have been a good way have handling this post. Instead you guys attacked it by saying you could do better, or do the same.. this type of behavior discourages players from even contributing at all.. Maybe its just me but i read an abrasive tone into your replies.

Did you read the upgrade for the hedgehog... FIRE hedgehog!! No offence, but wesnoth is not a C grade japanese RPG.

The best way to get things added to the game is to sugest and work on parts of the game that would improve is quality and playability. Dave isn't the only person working on this project and he is rarely is the one ends up choosing what goes in and what doesn't. Sure he can veto anything, but the real way to get something added is by getting support from the major members of the forum comunity (particularly the devs).

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joshbosh321 · Post by **joshbosh321** » December 1st, 2004, 4:32 am

If its any consolation, Elvish Champion, search for EP's and Turin's last posts. It shouldn't take you too long to find them squabbling like little kids or newbies like they accuse you of being

No offense, or anything, to anyone involved. I actually agree with the basis of what EP, Turin, and Kamahawk are saying. I'm just trying to cheer up a new forum member/put you back in you're place

Kamahawk · Post by **Kamahawk** » December 1st, 2004, 4:36 am

Bah, when I was a newb Miyo Dave and some other early dev squashed my first idea instantly. Of course I caught on pretty quick and my second idea eventualy led to the bowman line.

joshbosh321 · Post by **joshbosh321** » December 1st, 2004, 4:37 am

Kamahawk wrote:Bah, when I was a newb Miyo Dave and some other early dev squashed my first idea instantly. Of course I caught on pretty quick and my second idea eventualy led to the bowman line.

Which is the difference between genius and people like you and me, EC... we just don't catch on

Post by **Jetrel** » December 1st, 2004, 7:55 am

Kamahawk wrote:Elvish enchantress branch: Um... Why exactly is that there?

Heh. I'm actually thinking of moving said branch to the nonexistent "High Elves". These would basically be non-wood elves, unlike what we currently have, which possess all the qualities of wood elves.

One of the primary reasons I made it was to give a more high elven influence (c. Galadriel) to what we have, rather than having a naked girl with big fairy wings as the primary representative of female elvenness in the game.

I've come to realize that ... screw it ... I should just make a whole damn faction's worth of new units. These could well have a use in that elven campaign I had mentioned an idea for.

They would have the following:
Elvish spearmen, hoplite type guys, and such.
Elvish heavy cavalry, roughly analogous to our current human line but without the branches.
Elvish horse archers.
Elvish archers - no branches, not quite as good as sharpshooters, but all of them get marksman.

And then the elvish sorceress line would be reappropriated as part of this faction. The current level-2, which might need to become a level-1, would be recolored in blue - the whole faction would be dressed in shining silver, white and blue.

Now, as for how these would perform afield, they would be slightly more expensive than loyalists, more powerful. All (except possibly the cavalry) would get 1 move in forests, but they would not receive the defensive bonus that our current elves do.

This is mostly based on the fact that I, for various reasons involving stubborn people canonizing what should not be, can't fix the "skinny guys running around in green jumpsuits" problem with the current elves. Not because I'm incapable of doing so - neo and I came up with a new set of modified graphics which I think look WAY better, but rather because we are not allowed to do so.

So, I figured that I would just start mostly from scratch (except for copying and pasting some heads from the current elves), and demonstrate my interpretation of what "elves" are like. Perhaps by doing so, I can get the first motion achieved just by showing how silly they look by comparison.

This project has been stalled because I have something more pertinent to work on at the moment, but rest assured, it will get done, and what is finished so far looks awesome.

Kamahawk · Post by **Kamahawk** » December 1st, 2004, 3:21 pm

Persnoaly I have huge problem with the wings, I think it detracts from the shydes awsomeness.

LibrarianBrent · Post by **LibrarianBrent** » December 2nd, 2004, 12:07 am

Jetryl wrote:neo and I came up with a new set of modified graphics which I think look WAY better, but rather because we are not allowed to do so.

Can we see them? If they're that much better, I think the public outcry alone would get the graphics approved...

By the way, I completely agree. The current elves... uhh...

Jeff K. wrote:I FONDLE TREES FOR MR. TREE FACE

describes them perfectly IMO.

Except for the ones with flowing red capes. Those rock.