Unit suggestions: 3 levels for all

[frankie]

Units that can't level up make me sad, especially in campaign mode.

My general proposal is that all units in the game ought to be part of a 3+ level chain. Here's some examples:

1: Elf Apprentice: 6x2 blade, 4x3 magic (fire? pierce?), low experience.
2: Elf Mage: 8x3 blade, 7x3 fire magic
3: Elf Lord

With lower melee and higher ranged, Death Knight could be the level 3 for both Skeleton Warrior and Bone Shooter. It's bothered me that those two don't converge. Also, you could ditch Soulless if you have Corpse advance to Skeleton (after a LOT of experience, the flesh falls away).

1: Orcish Archer
2: Orcish Crossbow
3: Orcish Hunter: Ambush ability! Description should say "The brightest Orcish archers learn to use their foes' tactics against them."

1: Orcish Assassin
2: Orcish Slayer
3: Orcish Ninja: lots of possibilities ... Skirmisher? melee Poison? Backstab? alternate attack with Slow? My main suggestion is the graphic: use the Orcish Slayer pic with some alpha transparency.

I'm sure there's game balance reasons for stopping most Orcs at 2. Okay, make the experience high (150+), but give the poor piggies something to strive for!

I've written complete unit files for a these and others. I'd be glad to upload them if the devs like my concept.

[miyo]

Every unit does not need 3rd level.

- Miyo

[Circon]

The Elf Lord is a special character... not intended to be part of a recruit or advance chain.

The Orcish Crossbow was once thought to advance to Orcish Slurbow- I think there were some graphics floating around.

The Orcish Slayer will advance, I think.

[wobbegong]

I'm with Miyo here, I think some units only have 1 level to gain and others having 2 or even (rarely) 3 gives a variation and balance to units. Some units are slightly stronger than others at a level, but quality of advancement can make a slightly weaker unit a better long term investment.

But - I'd quite like to see some kind of incremental on further XP after a unit reaches the limit of it's level gains - I think my favourite would simply be to give an extra few HP every (say) 100 XP... (I know 'realism' is no excuse, but you can justify that a more experience fighter can both defend slightly better and keep going slightly longer - and a few more HP would produce that effect...). I think this would particularly suit races like the Orcs (orcs are fight with toughness not technique in my mind) and has the added advantage of being relatively simple to keep track of (I'm not keen on the idea of adding attacks or damage or anything more complex for extra XP, but I would think that an algorithm that, for instance, adds 4 HP / 100 XP (or even 1hp/25xp - picked as it is 1 more XP than gained for killing a 3rd level unit) wouldn't be too hard to put in for test purposes...).

[Dave]

Some units have a ranged attack, some don't. Some units have a magical attack, some don't. Some units can move in mountains, some can't. Some units are fast, some are slow.

And some units can advance to a high level, some can only advance to a low level.

I'm afraid I don't understand what some people find so untenable about this concept

I kinda do like the idea of max-level units being able to make very gradual gains though, although most of the other developers seem to disagree with me on this.

David

[fmunoz]

I kinda do like the idea of max-level units being able to make very gradual gains though, although most of the other developers seem to disagree with me on this.

Not me..
creating the special traits: Veteran and Elite will be a good way to do it

[Jetrel]

"thief/Assassin levels into ninja"


why oh why does every damn fantasy game do this. Does anyone have any idea what it takes to become a ninja?

None of the skills of a thief, save perhaps sneaking about quietly, apply, and there were many ninja who did not sneak, and just went into open battle.

Most assassins did their work with something that would not engage themselves in physical combat, like poison.

[fmunoz]

There are alredy planned/half done units to fill most gaps...

[Jetrel]

On a more relevant note, I would like the opinion of fmuñoz/dave/anyone else concerned about the following:

What I am concerned about is the names, and their order.

Forget the whole "no level 4-5 units" argument for a bit, and just tell me if these are alright:

----------------

Elvish Warrior
Elvish Prince
Elvish Lord
Elvish Archon
Elvish King

or perhaps

Elvish Warrior
Elvish Commander
Elvish Brigadier
Elvish Lord
Elvish Prince
Elvish King


-------
Other possible unit names:
Elvish Officer
Leader
Overseer
Sovereign

Another idea of mine would be to insert "Colonel" between "Lieutenant" and "General", in the human leader units.

I am NOT asking for approval for the 4th/5th level units. I am asking for approval for the names, and the order the names are in.

[Dave]

Personally, I don't like the name 'warrior' that much for an elf. IMO 'warrior' is somewhat synonymous with fighter, but sounds a little more impressive, and somewhat less likely to fight in organized bands.

I think the name 'warrior' suits dwarves far better than elves. It could also be a suitable name for an advancement to an elvish fighter. (Say, for instance, if we were to move captain and hero to third level).

I also don't really like 'brigadier' that much. It sounds too human-like. IMO 'marshal' is more suited to an Elf.

I also don't think that 'Prince' and 'King' should be used except to specify special units who happen to be members of the royal family.

Archon is cool. Overseer sounds sinister.

But, names are one of the things I'm less sticky about.

David

[Phekko]

Units that can't level up make me sad, especially in campaign mode.

I agree. Not every unit needs to level up all the time, but for instance the griffins with no levelup whatsoever or the infernal orkish shamen that died on me all the time were painful. If nothing else, just make the unit an exp-bar and once it reaches 100 give it veteran status with a few more HP, one point better damage in melee and/or missile or something. No need to even upgrade graphics, just change the coat color a bit or something.

1: Orcish Archer
2: Orcish Crossbow
3: Orcish Hunter: Ambush ability! Description should say "The brightest Orcish archers learn to use their foes' tactics against them."

Might even give it the ability to shoot poison arrows. Why not, orkseys are evil after all...

1: Orcish Assassin
2: Orcish Slayer
3: Orcish Ninja: lots of possibilities ... Skirmisher? melee Poison? Backstab? alternate attack with Slow? My main suggestion is the graphic: use the Orcish Slayer pic with some alpha transparency.

No ninja, please. The reasons are stated pretty well in a previous comment already. Eliminator or Nightblade would be better names. Skirmisher would be a good ability, backstab also works.

I'm sure there's game balance reasons for stopping most Orcs at 2. Okay, make the experience high (150+), but give the poor piggies something to strive for!

I've written complete unit files for a these and others. I'd be glad to upload them if the devs like my concept.

Part of the attraction in Wesnoth is the advancement of units. If and when that stops, some of the attraction goes away. If nothing else then at least make units progress towards veteran status slowly and possibly even progressively like thus:

Griffin recruit --> 100 XP
Griffin regular --> 200 XP more
Griffin veteran --> 400 XP more
Griffin elite (or whatever)

[Boucman]

I think that unit leveling should stop at level 3, (possible exception at 2 or 4 for some special cases, but 3 as ageneral rule) and not slow progression after that.


a compromise I like is to give lvl3 units a periodic free healing via the "leveling to self" trick. this allows XP to still be usefull for lvl3 units, and give some more strategic planning with high level units (attack before it lvel/to make it level) without disturbing the game balance that much...

[quartex]

I like the idea of units who have reached their max level (usually 3) being able to level to self in order to heal. now normally you still wouldn't want to waste XP on these units becuase you want to level other, weaker units. But if the XP was somewhere between 50-100 to heal, it could be a useful perk for maxed out units and it would make any XP they gain not completely useless.

[Roel]

I like that idea, higher level units get attacked more and I now use them mostly for drawing away fire from my about to level units and then I have to get them to a village for some turns to heal

[Dave]

I think that maxed-out units levelling to self to heal would just seem weird.

We'd get numerous bug reports: "I advanced my Elvish Avenger, and was looking forward to what he would become, but then he was still an Elvish Avenger! Fix this bug please!"

David