Weather overlays that effect gameplay---

[JW]

What about a terrain called Windshear. It could be applied ontop of other terrains and simply be a place with winds too powerful for any units to get through, graphics could involve 30-40% transparent white and blue streaks and be explained as a ground level jetstream effect native to the world of Wesnoth?

Failing that it could always be put in as its own terrain overtop more jagged, spikey mountains with many small points instead of a single massive point as it is now. Because with erosion from such powerful winds the mountain would be broken down into a myriad of thinner, sharper crags that could "cut" the air. Maybe called Razor Crags or Windshear mountain.

Which makes me think of a different circuit entirely. Terrain that damages units?

This quote from here made me think, why not have weather play a larger part in Wesnoth? This would basically consist of having weather negatively effect movement of certain units, but it could have other effects as well.

Ideas: A windshear overlay could increase movement costs for flyers by 2 and all other units by 1 for example. The rain overlays could go to some good use as well other than looking pretty. There could be snow, mist (I'd call it fog, but FoW is already called that), illumination could become an overlay instead of a different terrain (primarily for caves, but it could be applied anywhere), etc. The movement costs would be defined in movetypes (I would think, so it could be defined on a per unit basis).

Bad news: A decent amount of new graphics would be needed as well as new code to allow overlays to effect things such as movemont costs and illumination.

This would make Wesnoth "3d" in that it would have more than a single layer of terrain. This would not only add a lot of flexibility for map makers, but it would also make it possible to have moving weather across maps: I'm sure WML could be written to have the overlays move across the map simulating actual weather conditions. For a snow overlay it could turn Grassland to Snow, and the Forest, Mountain, and Hill hexes into their Snowy counterparts. There are so many possibilities this would open up.

More bad news: Graphics would have to be made so that it wouldn't look silly having a 1 hex overlay or a multi-hex overlay.

I really think this idea has great potential. Since I cannot code in C++ I unfortunately can't do anything other than post the idea here, get more ideas, and possibly get dome devs interested in it and code it themselves. So, I ask you guys: Is this a feature that you think would add to the gameplay and enjoyment of Wesnoth?

[scott]

I think it would be cool, but in a way that would start to push the game into being another game. In its best-implemented form, it would give an Archon-like quality to the basic game variables. It would be a very smooth and intuitive adjustment to the various stats. Contrast this with the granularity and complete knowledge that we have now, and maybe you can see how it would be a much different game. Also, unless it were beautiful and fast-performing, it would be a disaster - but you wanted to discuss around the technical issues, right?

[JW]

I think it would be cool, but in a way that would start to push the game into being another game. In its best-implemented form, it would give an Archon-like quality to the basic game variables. It would be a very smooth and intuitive adjustment to the various stats. Contrast this with the granularity and complete knowledge that we have now, and maybe you can see how it would be a much different game. Also, unless it were beautiful and fast-performing, it would be a disaster - but you wanted to discuss around the technical issues, right?

Yes, it is true that it would complicate the terrain system by adding variability to the game in that respect - if the moving weather is implemented. Otherwise the numbers would be just as static as ever, albeit with a little arithmetic involved. If the number of overlays were kept to a low number, say 4 or fewer, I don't think it would be too complicated for your average user to interpret the information.

Hmm...actually, let me think about the ramifications a little more while I go eat.

[scott]

Why would it rain in just 1 hex? Even if they're miles across, weather systems are larger.

[JW]

Why would it rain in just 1 hex? Even if they're miles across, weather systems are larger.

So you could have completely customizable patterns of course. You could arbitrarily restrict the weather to be a certain number of hexes wide, but you may as well just put the whole map under an overlay and simplify the whole process if that's the case.

[deonjo]

Sudden Lightning!!! Randomness Galore. How about hail. There can be isolated and secluded hail storms.

[Ken_Oh]

Just wanted to say that Archon is a kick-ass game.

[JW]

Just wanted to say that Archon is a kick-ass game.

Well, this is one of the few games I actually haven't played. I'll look it up and see exactly what you're talking about I guess, Scott.

[zaimoni]

Why would it rain in just 1 hex? Even if they're miles across, weather systems are larger.

Elevation, and/or a nearby lake.

Around here (Linn Valley), sometimes we get rain when it's not forecast because we're about 300' above the local wetlands...which in touch-and-go humidity is enough to temporarily form a raincloud. It doesn't hurt that we have a series of lakes fed by an artesian spring. Also, (not sure where, but saw it on the Weather Channel), I think Flagstaff or Phoenix (Arizona) had the dubious distinction last month (Mar. 2006) of it raining, but it never hitting the main ground level. The camera ~500' up was rained on successfully.

While the weather proposal sounds interesting (before attempting to code), I'd prefer to see a reasonably-performing WML prototype first.

[Prometheus]

Wesnoth apparently already has performance issues relating to graphics speed, so before doing screen-wide weather effects, a port to OpenGL migth be needed. As I recall this was the main reason the rain effect is not implemented.

Unfortunately the graphics code is not compartamentalized in easily found graphics functions, but scattered everywhere, so porting to OpenGL would be a major project.

[JW]

Wesnoth apparently already has performance issues relating to graphics speed, so before doing screen-wide weather effects, a port to OpenGL migth be needed. As I recall this was the main reason the rain effect is not implemented.

Unfortunately the graphics code is not compartamentalized in easily found graphics functions, but scattered everywhere, so porting to OpenGL would be a major project.

This is a very reasonable objection to implementing the idea at the current time.

[sparr]

Two words: Dark Legions. Imagine Archon meets Wesnoth. If you liked Archon (original, 2, ultra) and like Wesnoth (youre here, right?) then you really need to find a DOS emulator and try out Dark Legions. It came out a year or two after Archon Ultra, with slightly better graphics (640x480x256 colors I think). The combat is like Archon, but instead of playing on a chess board you play on a terrain map, and youre playing 'capture the orb'. You start the game with a budget for units, and can choose from dozens of different ones. A few Demons and Ogres, or a bunch of weak goblins. Elementals, mages, orcs, etc.

http://www.mobygames.com/game/dark-legions

[Ken_Oh]

Wow, I will check this out. And, I never even heard of Archon Ultra before. I played Archon (and 2) for C64 and Atari. I'll definitely check out all this.

[Gauteamus]

A windshear overlay could increase movement costs for flyers by 2 and all other units by 1 for example. The rain overlays could go to some good use as well other than looking pretty. There could be snow, mist (I'd call it fog, but FoW is already called that), illumination could become an overlay instead of a different terrain (primarily for caves, but it could be applied anywhere), etc. The movement costs would be defined in movetypes (I would think, so it could be defined on a per unit basis).

[dreaming]
I have been thinking loosely about a system of weather myself, after reading a thread on A more or less exclusively naval era.
My thoughts would be to have a wind cycle in tune with the day/night cycle (e.g. wind-direction N-dawn, NW-morning, SW-afternoon, S-dusk, SE first watch, NE-second watch). Movement point costs for a unit would be a function of direction relative to the windeye (and possibly wind strength/viscosity of watertile) with different costs for different units:
-Galley-type rowing ship would be as fast in every direction
-scooner-type sail would be relatively fast gaining on the wind
-square-rigged sail would be fast on the downwind
etc.

I dont think a wind-cycle of one day would be altogether unrealistic with a land-mass/ocean divided map like wesnoth (e.g. small monoon systems like the Sea Breeze

[/dreaming]

Unfortunately I dont think I have the time available to investigate into the matter atm, so all is just irresponsible daydreams